He says:
NF: The Solidarity Movement, I think its means are correct… I have no problem with the boycotts, divestments, sanctions and all of that, non-violent civil disobedience like the flotillas, the legal weapon like the attempt at universal jurisdiction, I think the means are right, but the goal will never fly.
You want to say you’re agnostic on Israel? You wanna say you want one state? There’s nothing in the international law for one state. You’re not gonna win a public to that. Once you step out of your little cult, your little ghetto, and you enter the real world, and you try to reach a broad public, and you say “We are a rights-based organisation” which is what BDS likes to say, “and we want to enforce our rights.” Okay, so once you step out of your ghetto, you’re no longer talking to yourself. There’s the other side. They also make themselves heard. They say, “No, that’s not true, they’re lying. They say they’re law but they want to destroy Israel”. [Then the world asks] “Is that true? You want to destroy Israel?” [and BDS resplies] “Oh we don’t have a position on Israel We don’t take a position” [The world replies]“Oh really, you don’t take a position on Israel? Well then we’re not going to take a position on BDS!”
The law is clear! You want to use the International Court of Justice on your side? Okay, the International Court of Justice it said, “the West Bank, Gaza, East Jerusalem, they are occupied Palestinian territories, that’s correct. But the ICJ also said that pre-June 67 border is Israel’s legal border. That’s their country! That’s the law! You want to promote one state? Fine, that’s your right. But then don’t pretend you’re trying to enforce the law. That’s not true. You want to selectively enforce the law.
FB: What the BDS movement, the Palestinian people are not 4 million. It comes to a much bigger number, do we want a state of Israel to exist, it’s not saying that we want to destroy Israel, it’s saying that 20% of citizens of Israel have the same right.
NF: Frank, I’m not talking for the video, I’m talking to you. And I’m getting exasperated with what I think is a whole lot of nonsense. I have been at this 30 years. I have earned my right to speak my mind, and I’m not going to tolerate what I think is silliness, childishness, and a lot of leftish posturing. There is a settlement that’s been proposed by the international community for resolving the conflict. A just solution based on Resolution 194, the right of return and compensation. There is nothing for resolving the conflict that says anything about the minority inside Israel, the Palestinian Arab minority. It’s not there. You want to drag in that minority and start talking about them? Well, in my opinion, you’ll get nowhere, because the whole world is filled with countries that persecute their minorities. Would you like to be an Untouchable in India? Do you know what it’s like to be a Dalit in India? Do you want to go through every country in the Middle East and how they treat their minorities? And then it’s just open season by the other side, to show what hypocrites you are. Why are you focusing on that minority, and not 10 million other minorities in the world? [Frank: mmm] If you look at for example, when Yasser Arafat declared a state in November 1988, and you read the platform, the political document, and so forth, there is no mention of the Palestinian Arabs in Israel. It’s not really about them. We have to be honest. And I loathe the disingenuousness. They think they’re being very clever, they call it their three-tier, and they think they’re very clever because they know the result of implementing all three is what? What’s the result? You know and I know, what’s the result? [Frank: I think it’s like, there’s no Israel, the way Israel is now but..] There is no Israel! There is no Israel full stop. And the law is, Israel is a state, it has its defined borders, and if you want to eliminate Israel, that’s your right, but I don’t think you’re going to reach anybody. I think it’s a non-starter. If you say you want to enforce the law, and in fact impose it on Israel because they’re not going to accept it, then the law is clear, and you have to say – and you’ll never hear the Solidarity movement say – two states. Go look at the UN General Assembly resolution. It always begins, peaceful settlement of the Palestine question, the last part where they lay out the terms for resolving the conflict, they say, a two state settlement, and then they say East Jerusalem, West Bank, Gaza, they are occupied Palestinian territories, settlements are illegal under international law, and a just resolution of the refugee question based on the right of return, but it’s all within that framework. And if you don’t want the same framework then stop talking about the law. And stop trying to be so clever, because you’re only clever in your cult. The moment you step out, you have to deal with Israeli propaganda. And here they have a case! They say, no they’re not really talking about rights, they’re talking about they want to destroy Israel, and in fact I think that’s true! I’m not gonna lie.
One comment I wish to make here.
Finkelstein asks rhetorically, “Do you want to go through every country in the Middle East and how they treat their minorities?”
Of course – countries should not be allowed to “get away” with persecuting minorities, simply because they all do so equally. Rather, we should shine a light, as much as possible, on all persecuted minorities and conflicts where we can offer solutions.
But the over-focus on Israel-Palestine, and the concept that Zionism is to blame for all or most of the Middle East’s ills, often gets in the way of this.
